Pathfinder Drakan Edition

[Kino Rynn]

Good Afternoon. I'm not sure if anyone has made a post like this.

I'm wanting to put together a Pathfinder game sent in the Drakan universe. Set about 100 years ADW (After the Dark Wars).

I am looking for about 4-6 Players. I would like some input on what classes and races should be allowed in the game. This is my first time DMing a game.

I will give more details if anyone is interested in playing.

Here is the link to a Pathfinder database it should have all the info you need went deciding what to play, use, etc. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/

If interested please feel free to PM me or respond via this thread and I look forward to playing with you.

[Arokhs Twin]

Yeah could do with some more information, sounds interesting.

As for races they would be Humans, Orcs / Grull, Wartocks, Succubi, possibly Giants. If this is set after the dark wars though there wouldn't be any dragons as they all would be sleeping in stone until the time the games are set? It would be interesting to see what your plans are for the story / plot as the time period between the end of the dark wars and Rynn's time is undocumented.

[Kino Rynn]

I'm glad their is some interest in my idea. As for the setting I was thinking that a hundred years ADW would be long enough that everyone involved in the war would be dead and people in remote villages would think of the Order as a myth and be unsure if they were really a thing or not. While those of nobility would obviously know the true history.

As for dragons and such its only stated that the Elder Breed went to sleep and not all the dragons slept. Who's to say their aren't people who have learned to become dragon-riders or Bonded in an attempt to imitate the riders of legend?

I also figured that after one hundred years the humans would have had enough time to somewhat rebuild and reorganize. As well as being recent enough for false prophets/saviors that claim to have the answers to everyone's problems.


I will think a little more about races. I feel that as long as you can justify lore wise your class, I will allow just about all the classes available.

Please feel free to provide any and all feedback. Thank you.

[Mechanist]

As for the setting I was thinking that a hundred years ADW would be long enough that everyone involved in the war would be dead

Not all the races have the same lifespans... Orcs and Wartoks would probably be similar to humans in that regard, maybe a bit longer lived; but succubi and giants would likely be considerably longer-lived.
If I had to guess, probably around 120+ years average for the Succubi, and maybe 150-180+ for the Giants (it has to take very long to grow to THAT size...).

So it's totally plausible that by 100ADW, there are still some (non-human) survivors from the time of the Dark Wars - although of course they would've likely been too young to actually have participated back then.

Perhaps more significantly, there would also still be a good amount of humans alive whose mother/father had gone through the Dark Wars.

As for dragons and such its only stated that the Elder Breed went to sleep and not all the dragons slept. Who's to say their aren't people who have learned to become dragon-riders or Bonded in an attempt to imitate the riders of legend?

Yes, the Elder Breed is pretty much out of the picture in this case.

All you have to work with are the "bat dragons"/"crow dragons". Not real dragons, but close enough I suppose? Especially in absence of the superior Elder Breed.

Next up, I don't think the Dragonstone's bonding magic would work on non-Elder Breed "dragons"; never mind that they're basically just intelligent animals, like birds on steroids.
So I suppose that any attempts to work with them would involve some form of animal taming magic, bolstered by runes and/or grimstone.
Even then it would only have a limited-time effect - although of course with the application of sufficient power, that time might be long enough for practical purposes (days/weeks).

I also figured that after one hundred years the humans would have had enough time to somewhat rebuild and reorganize.

This is a tricky one. Game designers don't seem to realize how long X hundred years really is.
Consider that over the last 600 years, the human civilization has advanced from the Middle Ages to the age of technology that we are currently living in.
Of course since the Drakan timeline (or at least that part of it) is pretty much set in stone, any attempts to add to it have to reconcile this consideration with the rest of the known facts and events.

As well as being recent enough for false prophets/saviors that claim to have the answers to everyone's problems.

More to the point - remember that it's not just the human civilization that's been rebuilding itself... you don't think the Dark Union is going to have been just sitting on their asses, twiddling their thumbs for a hundred years, do you?

Now obviously, the Dark Union had been dealt a crushing blow by Arokh's and Heron's banishment of Navaros to the Rift, thus stripping the Dark Union of any effective leadership - as presumably, during his reign, Navaros would have been personally terminating any potential threats to his position as the leader of the Dark Union!
However, even if most of the Dark Union's forces were routed in the days/months/years following the fall of Navaros, it's inevitable that at least some of them would have escaped that fate - especially ones in noncombat roles, eg. spies.

As we already know, by 600ADW the Dark Union was in a pretty good shape again (especially considering that their former leader was still stuck in a hellish alternate dimension).
Also if we consider that there hasn't been much technological (nor magical) advancement over these 600 years, the logical conclusion is that the Dark Union would have begun its reconstruction very early; their increassing harrassment of the other races causing them to shift the focus (and most of their resources) to fighting them off, thus stifling the technological/magical research due to the near-constant unrest.

I'd say that by 100ADW, there would already have been the first signs that the Dark Union isn't nearly as extinct as everyone would have thought...


Finally, I'll throw you a bone here... consider that in the absence of the Elder Breed, it makes perfect sense to start some genetic engineering (even as simple as just artificial selection) on the bat dragons... and by 600ADW, we have pretty compelling evidence that this is exactly what the Dark Union had been doing.

In fact, that line of research might well have begun some years before the Dark Wars - as anyone with half a brain can see that the Elder Breed probably wouldn't have taken kindly to the enslavement of most of the human race, it's quite likely the Dark Union would have been working on replacing their Elder Breed companions with other, more obedient and easily manipulated creatures that lack any "undesirable" traits such as higher intelligence, or a conscience...

As for races they would be Humans, Orcs / Grull, Wartocks, Succubi, possibly Giants.

Hmm, but what about the goblins?
Clearly they are more intelligent than they appear, since at least by 600ADW they have been mass-producing fully functioning guns...

[Kino Rynn]

You make some good points. As far as everyone involved dying off I was mostly referring to the human side of things as well as races with close to human length lifespans. More so for people that had an active role in the war IE leaders, soldiers and the like.

But you also bring up a good point that there are some races that were alive back then and would still be alive 100 ADW. That can lead to some interesting encounters for the players. I think it is possible for some races to have been active in the war but maybe not at a leadership level but more at the grunt level of things.


The game just states that many followed Arokhs example and went to sleep also. It doesn't say that all of them did. So I think its possible for their to be a small handful of Elder Breed in the world still awake.

I don't believe we ever get to see someone try and Bond with a Non-Elder Breed. So its not impossible just unlikely due to the bat and crow dragons being a much lower quality. I think someone very well could Bond with these lesser dragons but with possible side effects.


After 100 years it is fully possible that humans and other races may still be fractured. While some what rebuild many races may have formed their own tribes or clans out of the ashes of their fallen civilization. Much like in own history. When Great Powers are destroyed the world is left with a Power Vacuum and sooner or later someone/thing with fill it.

As stated above. Even the Dark Union is not immune to faction spiting and people seeking power. It is very possible for parts of the Dark Union to break away and be led by someone who feels they can restore them to greatness or whatever the case may be.

While much of the Dark Union would be rebuilding there would also be other factions of the Union that may or may not have the same goals. Some may try and replace the Union all together with their leader at the top. Look at the History of Germany in the 1920's and 30's. It's full of that type of stuff.

Basically what I'm envisioning is a world that is basically ripe for dictatorship. I know most dictators rises soon after a time of crisis. But I think within the time-frame I have to work with it is completely possible for people of power to decide now is the best time to take the reigns of power. Be the Human, Orc or any of the other races. In the sense of most poor peasants are uninformed of the Dark Wars and what happened. It makes a perfect setting for someone of power and knowledge to some in and influence the people the way they see fit. This can work with the other races also.


As for the races I was mostly referring to Player Characters and what races they could be. But I don't think it's out of place to insert non game races into the Drakan world so long as they can fit in from a lore prospective. I.E. you wouldn't have a Beholder in the game because that wouldn't make any logical sense.


I want to thank you Mechanist for the detail of your post and for the thought provoking answers you have given me. I look forward to your reply.

[Mechanist]

The game just states that many followed Arokhs example and went to sleep also. It doesn't say that all of them did. So I think its possible for their to be a small handful of Elder Breed in the world still awake.

Well, most of them perished in the Dark Wars - and of those few that survived, most (if not all) got too stoned to care

But more seriously - yeah, it's plausible that at least a few would have stayed behind after the Dark Wars - eg. due to having just hatched at that time, or even just after the wars' conclusion.

Alternatively, if you want to stick to the version that all of the Elder Breed alive at that time packed up and left - it's not unlikely that some dragon eggs could have been stashed away for safekeeping (eg. protected by some powerful magic fields?) somewhere around the beginning of the Dark Wars, and then rediscovered when cleaning up the aftermath?

Rimril's place seems as good a spot for that as any - it was very well protected, since it's still standing (and mostly intact) by 600ADW, and for all that time it was under the protection of Rimril himself.
Also Rimril was part of the Order, so it only seems natural that he would agree to such a thing.
Of course after the Dark Wars, he couldn't actually leave, so he would have to wait for someone else to show up, someone who could be trusted with these eggs...

As to why he didn't mention any of it to Rynn and Arokh when they showed up - well, that was ancient history, not relevant to the task at hand; also they hardly had any time for idle chitchat.
And Arokh, it's equally likely he wouldn't have known about it either, since he was actively participating in the Dark Wars.
For Tuiri, much the same argument applies, also she had a much bigger problem to worry about - what with being stuck as a soul shadow, and all that.

I don't believe we very get to see someone try and Bond with a Non-Elder Breed. So its not impossible just unlikely due to the bat and crow dragons being a much lower quality. I think someone very well could Bond with these lesser dragons but with possible side effects.

Hmm, but wasn't the Dragonstone a gift from the gods, granted to the Elder Breed specifically?
It would've been counterproductive to have it work for any other (lesser) "dragon" races if that were the case.

If anything, I'd be more willing to accept that a group of brilliant alchemists, mages and whatnot, analyzed the inner workings of the Dragonstone carefully, and managed to create an inferior copy that doesn't work for the Elder Breed - but does work for the lesser races (and likely with further limitations on its effects - eg. little or no lifespan extension, and/or only temporary "Bond" duration).

EDIT: This could have very well happened well before the advent of the Dark Wars - but their creation had been shelved back then, since it didn't really work as intended, and in any case wasn't really needed at that time, since the Elder Breed was still around)

(this also opens the possibility of a darker angle, where powering the "fake Dragonstone" requires considerable amounts of human and/or dragon sacrifices - or that the process has only a very low chance of success, usually resulting in deaths of the participants instead due to some unknown, effectively random incompatibility; make of those ideas what you will)

There still remains the question of how would the "fake Dragonstone" even work in practice - since the lesser breeds we see by 600ADW, while presumably at least somewhat intelligent, also appear to be feral, aggressive and incapable of communication (at least, not with humans and the Elder Breed). Perhaps that wasn't always the case, though?

EDIT: In any case, there also needs to be some reason why there are no dragon riders (even of the lesser races) by the time of OOTF.
Perhaps the "fake Dragonstone" - which (presumably) had been crafted in the pre-Dark War times, only had a limited durability - and its complexity and/or arcane construction made it impossible to recreate in the post-war era; especially since a lot of the required knowledge would have been lost with the fall of the Order?

As stated above. Even the Dark Union is not immune to faction spiting and people seeking power.

Absolutely. Especially because it's the Dark Union, which was itself formed in that way.
Also, presumably it's the reason it took them so long to restore it to at least a fraction of its former "greatness", while not being completely wiped out by the opposition.

Just remember that whatever you think up needs to be consistent with the subsequent timeline.
One way to reconcile that would be to make your story involve the demise of a promising new leader of the Dark Union, since that would have thrown a wrench in the gears; that's a good few decades of setback

As for the races I was mostly referring to Player Characters and what races they could be.

That's what I meant there. Why not goblins, too? They were obviously quite intelligent, and capable of communication (at least with the other goblins; apparently they didn't speak the human languages - or at least not by 600ADW).


EDIT: Also, moved this topic to "Dragon and fantasy discussion" subforum, where it belongs

[Kino Rynn]

You sir took the words right out of my mouth with the "fake" Dragon-stones. my thoughts exactly. However I was more thinking of some mages or something make an alliterative using magic. But these Fake stones are a much better Idea given that they have imperfections. My plan was to also have ways for characters to gain long life but at a heavy cost without using the Bonding or stones at all.

I haven't finalized anything yet but as we know the dragons can be corrupted. So I was thinking that one of these Old Breed dragons still running around could be a Union holdout with there own agenda. As well as some DU factions and some independent factions as well as a possible civil war between the human nobles? What do you think.

After I put some more thought into it. I will post what the story will be and the premise of the adventure.

I need to ensure I can find players first. I think we can use the website Roll20.com or Skype to play.

Please let me know what you think.

[Mechanist]

But these Fake stones are a much better Idea given that they have imperfections.

Right. So the fake Dragonstone creates "lesser soul gems", which can then be used to form a "fake Bond" with the lesser race dragons.
And because it only has a limited number of uses and can't be recreated, eventually these "lesser dragon riders" would disappear from history, thus reconciling the timeline with the state of things as of Drakan:OOTF.
Sounds workable, all right.

My plan was to also have ways for characters to gain long life but at a heavy cost without using the Bonding or stones at all.

The generic ways to do that would involve sacrificing other humans and/or lesser dragons; either physically, or just their souls.

I suppose the souls of fallen enemies would work just fine for that purpose (like how the Soul Gems work in Elder Scrolls games), but obviously that would be looked down upon as being dishonorable and/or unethical.

I haven't finalized anything yet but as we know the dragons can be corrupted. So I was thinking that one of these Old Breed dragons still running around could be a Union holdout with there own agenda. As well as some DU factions and some independent factions as well as a possible civil war between the human nobles? What do you think.

Hmm, don't think any major civil wars would be likely in these circumstances - especially since the (new) Dark Union would represent an increasing, common threat; I can see at most just some minor, isolated power struggles between feuding factions; certainly not all-out civil wars.

As for some of the dragons still remaining... well, another possibility is that there was a special task team that got dispatched by the Dark Union to some remote regions of Drakan with the task of excavating ancient ruins searching for some magical artifact(s), shortly before the Dark Wars have begun.
Because that region was very remote, and the operation had to be kept secret, they had to be self-sufficient - so no resupplying and no communication with the outside. So they had no idea that the wars have happened, not until a good while after they have already ended.
Yeah, AFAIK there are some real-world examples of things like that happening, so there's certainly some precedent for that kind of stuff.

Alternatively, it's just as likely that any surviving Dark Union dragons simply wouldn't have agreed to just go with the flow...

[Kino Rynn]

That exactly right. I was thinking the Old breed dragon could be using it influence to gather real dragon stones(only 1 or 2) and use them as a basis to make these counterfeits. Over time they would loss their power and eventually like you said fade from history.

As for the civil war idea. Maybe civil war is to strong of a word. But the idea is that say the ruling nobility want to replace the current ruler and the winners of this small internal war could set the foundation for the ruling family of the OotF and TAG.

As for the independent faction(s) I was thinking of have a band of knights or warriors that have the goal of destroy all the dragons good or evil. As they see dragons as the cause of all the worlds problems. Perhaps they are being influenced or pawns to a larger plan??

As for the long lasting life. The plan is a bit darker than just killing someone. An attitude that this person has "made their bed and now must lay in it" ie Anakin Skywalker in Episode 3 of Star Wars.

I like the idea of a DU research team but I will have to give it some more thought.

So I take it Mechanist you are on board with playing once I get some more people involved?

[Mechanist]

gather real dragon stones(only 1 or 2)

At this point it's important to maintain the distinction between the Dragonstone (the artifact, which there is only 1 of) and the Soul Gems, which were made using the Dragonstone's powers.

Which is why I suggested that the original Dragonstone had to be examined and copied at some point.

To use a real-world analogy: you can't determine anything useful about an integrated circuit by just disassembling it and looking at it under a microscope. Extremely expensive and sophisticated tools are required, as well as a lot of work.
And even then you can't actually produce them unless you have the factory to do so.
So in this case, it makes a lot more sense to go straight to the source, and duplicate that instead

Anyhow, with this idea, it's far more plausible that it would have happened before the Dark Wars, precisely because of the complexity and magnitude of such an undertaking.

What you proposed - small-scale duplication of the actual soul gems - makes more sense in the post-war context.
Also because of the nature of the process, eventually the knowledge of how to make these copies became lost - perhaps at some point, the only remaining mage who knew the details of the process had to destroy all knowledge of it, to prevent it from falling into the hands of the DU?

Of course these 2 ideas aren't mutually exclusive; it's entirely possible that both of these things have happened in geographically distant parts of Drakan.

As for the independent faction(s) I was thinking of have a band of knights or warriors that have the goal of destroy all the dragons good or evil. As they see dragons as the cause of all the worlds problems.

Tricky.
The dragons have been allied with humanity for around 4 centuries; also one of them was instrumental in the defeat of Navaros.
Also most of them have either died or turned into stone, during and immediately after the Dark Wars. Not much scope for widespread dragonslaying there.

Besides, most if not all of the post-war dragonslaying efforts would have been directed at keeping the lesser dragons at bay; as before the Dark Wars, the Elder Breed would have been taking care of that.

the ruling nobility want to replace the current ruler

All the way up to the Dark Wars, it was the "Age without Kings", remember?

However, obviously there had to be some people in charge of things locally. Eg. similar how the city-states have worked in Ancient Greece, except they would have been overall governed by the Order.

So I take it Mechanist you are on board with playing once I get some more people involved?

Never played that kind of game, so it's hard for me to give a meaningful answer.
Also I'm kinda busy with all the Drakan stuff for the foreseeable future

I need to ensure I can find players first. I think we can use the website Roll20.com or Skype to play.

Try our Discord server maybe

If there is sufficient interest, Arokh's Twin (aka Teekus on Discord) can set up another Discord channel for that purpose.
Discord should be fine for that kind of thing, since any messages that have been modified after posting have an unremoveable (edited) tag attached to them.

[Kino Rynn]

Ah I should have been more clear. See that the one creating these copies of the soul gems is an Elder Breed I would think that they already have an understanding of how the gems work and how to copy one. That being said since this Dragon is the only one with the knowledge to make these thing once he/she is dead the knowledge would be lost. It is unlike they would share their secret and a "source of power".

As for this band of knights I was thinking they would be small in number maybe 20 at most. You make a good point though. Perhaps it would be best if they were simply mercenaries that paraded around as dragon slayers to make themselves feel important to the local towns and villages. Again most of the villagers are dumb peasants and many believe the DW and Dragons as friends to be a myth. Since the peasants are poor and cant read they must go off of hearsay. Also if all you ever see of dragons are lesser dragons that terrorize your town or village and that all you know about dragons, it makes sense that these villages would want no part dragons and would not trust them. Finally assuming they are getting all their info from village elder(s) what say these elder(s) have to be honest?


Sorry I forgot about the "Age without Kings" I'm at work and been up all night on night-shift. How ever yes it does say before DW their were no Kings but afterwards I'm sure someone or a group of people would have taken charge. I agree with the city states idea but even Greek city states had kings. Nothing says this story had to involve the whole world.

We know at some point a ruling family came to power in some capacity. Lady Myschala being the queen at the time of OotF and TAG. The games may not specifically state that she is the "Queen" but it's obvious that she is the ruler of the land. Yes she is the head of the Order but she is clear the "nations" ruler. however I'm unsure if both positions are connected or not. Similar to Japan with the Emperor and the Shogun.

Again due to the time frame I choose it is possible for a King/Kingdom to rise and fall into obscurity and be completely forgotten by the time of the first game.

Pathfinder is just like Dungeons and Dragons.

Okay thanks for the info. I will also make a post on Discord. Hopefully I can gain enough interest and Ill ask Arokh's Twin about setting up a separate Discord Server.

[Mechanist]

See that the one creating these copies of the soul gems is an Elder Breed I would think that they already have an understanding of how the gems work and how to copy one.

Not neccesarily true.

Again to use a real-world analogy - while the majority of people can use highly complicated devices (eg. cars, computers) in at least some capacity, most of them don't understand (and/or don't care about) the principles by which these things actually function; let alone how they are made.

Or to go back to the integrated circuit example:
The functionality of most ICs can be fully described in a single document ranging from a small leaflet to a moderate-sized book (a few hundred pages). That is all the information that the user (in this case, the circuit designer) needs to know to be able to fully utilize that device's potential.
However, the complete and detailed production process of the same ICs would take at least a few hundred books to describe to the point where there would be any hope of ever recreating one. Never mind all of the extremely expensive and complex machinery required to allow any of it to happen in the first place.

TL;dr... most (if not all) oi the Elder Breed dragons would only have known how to use the Dragonstone, and the Soul Gems that it creates. But not how it functions in any level of detail beyond that.

There probably would have been little incentive for the dragons to investigate its inner workings, especially since any given dragon would only ever need to use it at most once in their lifetime.

It is known however, that the Dragonstone had been stolen from the dragons (and its whereabouts unaccounted for, until it was recovered later on) during the reign of the Order; presumably that's when it had been analyzed by the humans.

And since it was stolen, it's safe to assume it was done by the agents of what would have later become known as the Dark Union...
Especially since that would provide a solid basis for how Navaros was eventually able to devour Kaeros' soul "in a perversion of the ancient bonding ritual".

Perhaps it would be best if they were simply mercenaries that paraded around as dragon slayers to make themselves feel important to the local towns and villages.

Haha, have you watched Dragonheart (the 1st movie)? It pretty much took that idea to its logical conclusion...

I agree with the city states idea but even Greek city states had kings.

Yes, but in this case they wouldn't have been kings in the usual sense - more like emissaries of the Order, who would have been accountable to their "main ruling body", however the specifics of that would have worked (haven't played TAG yet, so don't know any of that).

Nothing says this story had to involve the whole world.

Well the Drakan:OOTF "Book sequence" says otherwise...
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Code: Select all

By their strength and wisdom, the world was led, and peace reigned for centuries.

I will also make a post on Discord. Hopefully I can gain enough interest and Ill ask Arokh's Twin about setting up a separate Discord Server.

Lol, not a whole new server, just a single channel on the existing one

[Kino Rynn]

I see your point. On the dragonstone issue. Perhaps using the DU research team you talked about earlier would be a better explanation of how this Dragon has this information on making fakes.

Yes I have seen Dragonheart one of my favorite movies lol. But I wasn't even thinking about that lol. I feel it would for a good mantra to tell the villagers and towns people, especially when you need money and "other" essentials.


True but at this point the Order wouldn't really be around right, save for a few people that were a part of it. But we may be talking about a few dozen or hundred people at most.

I mean the story I'm crafting could take place on a regional level in a somewhat isolated incident. Sure it can branch out to many areas but if the Main Bad Guy is the leader of one of these Factions working for their own agenda it would make sense that their operations are regional and not all over the globe. But the players journey can go anywhere.

I meant discord channel lol.

[Mechanist]

Yes I have seen Dragonheart one of my favorite movies lol. But I wasn't even thinking about that lol. I feel it would for a good mantra to tell the villagers and towns people, especially when you need money and "other" essentials.

Works a lot better when you have your own dragon around, to prove your point

True but at this point the Order wouldn't really be around right, save for a few people that were a part of it. But we may be talking about a few dozen or hundred people at most.

If it wasn't obvious, I meant back when the Order actually existed. Clearly couldn't have had kings in the "Age without Kings", right?

I mean the story I'm crafting could take place on a regional level in a somewhat isolated incident. Sure it can branch out to many areas but if the Main Bad Guy is the leader of one of these Factions working for their own agenda it would make sense that their operations are regional and not all over the globe. But the players journey can go anywhere.

Right. Well, can't make it too global in any case - lest it begin to contradict the established timeline, or even just stretch the limits of plausibility.

For an example of a setting where that line had been crossed, look no further than, say, Divinity: Dragon Commander - its story takes place long before the events of the earlier Divinity 2: DKS, yet the events portrayed in Div:DC are totally inconsistent (on a fundamental level) with what had been shown in D2:DKS.

[Kino Rynn]

Were could I find a World Map include all the areas from both games in one picture? So I can use it as a reference point for world building. If none are available can anyone on the forms make one?

Thank you.